Susan Piver’s newest book, The Wisdom of a Broken Heart: An Uncommon Guide to Healing, Insight, and Love has just been released by Free Press. She was here recently in NYC giving a dharma talk at the NY Shambhala Center. Afterwards, we had a chance to talk.
Susan and I have been on retreat together in Colorado and she is a warm and clear-eyed human being. She will be conducting a retreat for writers at Shambhala Mountain Center in Colorado May 28-June 3. Visit shambhalamountain.org for more information.
What is a broken heart?
It’s when the longing for love meets the truth of impermanence.
Why are you so interested and passionate about the teachings of the broken heart?
Because having your heart broken by any number of things is a particular pain that feels intolerable. And so, the teachings on broken heart that I found in Shambhala Buddhism are extraordinarily unique and precious. In fact, the only teachings I have found about broken heart are in Shambhala Buddhism. In Shambhala Buddhism, we value things like sorrow, anger, and grief. And also, I wrote the book to help and understand myself.
Once we are in touch with broken heart, how do we handle the pain of that? how is it not a big downer?
Well it actually is a big downer! But if you relax–and by relax–I don’t mean spacing out or forgetting–but relax by allowing, then the heartbreak begins to transform into something else.
How do you convince people not to run as fast and as far and as quickly as possible away from feeling their broken heart?
We really have no choice though do we? I mean we could medicate ourselves heavily, but the medication eventually wears off. We can’t get out of this broken heart thing. No matter how much we try, the pain is never gone. If you don’t feel your broken heart, it fuels your actions and that’s bad. That’s called the suffering of suffering. The only way out is through.
How did you find Buddhism?
I am someone who reads lots of book and so many years ago, I picked up a book because I liked the title called, Heart of the Buddha by Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche. Inside I read, and I’m paraphrasing slightly, “The only possible spiritual path is your personal experience. There is no other path for you.” Reading that was a light-bulb moment and so I kept reading and read a lot and then eventually I thought to myself, I must be a Buddhist. I bought some more books and when I bought them, these same bookmarks kept falling out. They were bookmarks from Shambhala publications. I found out there was a Shambhala center not far from my house in Boston so I went there and started meditating.
Do you feel that Buddhism can be practiced with other religions/paths?
Yes and no. Everyone can and should practice meditation and look at their mind. Anyone can go on a retreat and anyone can practice, but at a certain point, you are either a Buddhist or not. At a certain point, it’s important to commit to something or someone in life. Commitment changes things. The commitment in Buddhism is that our aim is to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all beings.
Do you think Buddhism is secular?
Well, Buddhism is a path to enlightenment and it’s non-theistic. Buddhism is a super-advanced form of common sense and has tremendous application to secular life. Buddhism, in part, is about work, relationships, finding meaning, and living a decent life. The two primary ways we do that is by learning how to meditate and take our mediation off the mat, and through the practice of lovingkindness.
How are the teachings on broken heart related in particular to Tibetan Buddhism (to which Shambhala Buddhism belongs), or are they particular to Shambhala Buddhism?
The teachings of the Vajrayana path– which are the Tibetan Buddhist teachings– are that whatever happens, we should dive into it as a way to enlightenment. The genius of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was that he showed Westerners a way to engage with the bad things in life–sickness, job loss, financial ruin, divorce, etc– and said, This shit is a way to wake up. Working with your broken heart is not about feeling better particularly. It’s about the shock of encountering impermanence. Whenever you encounter impermanence, you have your best shot at waking up. Having lost love is one of the most profound experiences of impermanence you could ever have. It feels like you have been pushed off a cliff and you are falling thousands and thousands of feet waiting to hit the ground. If you stop struggling and worrying, you can experience some kind of flight, some kind of letting go. For me, a way to stop struggling is to become curious. Being curious is predicated on not-knowing. And it’s a way of letting go.
Part 2 of my interview with Susan will be posted in a couple days where she continues talking about broken heart, but also talks about WRITING! You can find Susan on Twitter @spiver or at her website susanpiver.com
{ 9 comments }
Lucid and loving and lyrical interview. Thanks to both of you for this.
from the trenches….thanks
Wonderful! I was also at Shambhala this past week, and blogged re: Susan Piver’s talk about heartbreak. So inspiring! Thank you, BW.
http://grandsamours.blogspot.com/2010/04/no-45-susan-piver.html
I appreciated hearing about this topic of Broken Hearts. It is something we all experience from time to time, sadly for some of us it happens too often. The response from most people is to just get over it.
This leads to the feeling we shouldn’t let it affect us, that we are somehow weak for experiencing this pain. This leads to shame and hiding.
I imagine the simple acknowledgement of the reality and normality of this pain is a relief for many people.
.-= Siddhartha´s last blog ..Failure to Adapt: The Agonizing Death of the Publishing World =-.
Sherralee, julie, and Sara–glad you found this dialog helpful. I hope you’ll find part 2 as useful. It was very fun to talk with the sparkly Bindu.
Sara, I loved, loved, loved reading your blog post about my talk. You listened so incredibly well and the way you expressed the key points was crazy lucid. I so appreciate you for this.
xo s
I’m reading this at the DMV in Herald Square…the juxtaposition is delightful. Thank you for this clear, open-hearted, honest conversation. I just read When Things Fall Apart this year for the first time and found deep comfort in Chodron’s words to lean into the sharp points. I hear that echoed here today and I feel myself taking a deep, calming breath at the reminder. Thank you.
Wonderful and helpful insights, thank you for this interview!
Susan,
Thanks so much for reading my post. Your words at Shambhala truly resonated with me. It took me several days to digest them, and then I had a moment of lucidity– and I wrote, wrote, wrote. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and inspiration!
.-= Sara´s last blog ..No. 50, Paris =-.
This really hit home. I’ve been grappling with the concept of impermanence this week and even wrote a blog post on the topic here: http://www.darrahparker.com/blog/impermanence.html
I lost my long-time kitty/companion this week and was amazed at how hard it hit me. I’ve been reading a lot of Pema Chodron the past few years and felt myself sink into the grief in a way I had never experienced before. I allowed myself to feel the pain instead of avoid it and was amazed to find a sense of peace and gratitude on the other side.
Thank you so much for sharing this interview. I’m off to read part two right now!
.-= darrah´s last blog ..wish i may, wish i might =-.